ZDDP

[thedirtydutchman]

speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836. Interesting, sorry if Im not supposed to link to other forums on here. If thats an issue I will delete it.

[vanapplebomb]

Thats a great read, but I think there is more to the picture than film strength. Having high film strength does not necessarily guarantee proper lifter and cam operation. Even with a film of oil between the two parts the fact still stands that the oil layer will become so thin as the lobe wipers over the lifter that the friction of the rapidly shearing oil along the surface can erode away the iron at a higher rate if there is no sacrificial layer on the surface. If my understanding is correct, the phosphorus reacts with the iron to create a thin iron phosphate surface layer for lubrication, and the zinc literally plates out under the heat and pressure to provide a sacrificial layer between the cam and lifter that is scuffed away when the lobe wipes over the lifter. That is one of the reasons you have to change oil. The zinc and phosphorus are used up over time and depleted.

So yes, high film strength is great, but I don't think that the story ends there.

[thedirtydutchman]

I agree with you, as do a bunch of people on that forum lol. Just thought it was interesting is all.

[vanapplebomb]

Very interesting indeed.

What I did not know until recently is that to much zddp can also be a bad thing. I'm told it actually increase wear of street engines because the reaction between the phosphorus and iron accelerates. I found this out because I started asking around about Lucas Hot Rod and Classic Car oil with about 2100ppm of ZDDP. Most say that is overdose. To bad, because you can pick that stuff up in five quart jugs for a pretty good price. That said, this is just word of mouth, and nobody as far as I know has done testing to confirm this, nor have I heard any horror stories, but it may be to soon to tell for sure.

[thedirtydutchman]

I was reading something about that not long ago. Problem is, how the heck are you supposed to know how much is to much?

[vanapplebomb]

Not sure anyone has decisively quantified that. We do know that that there are several oils out there that work well though. Brad Penn, AMSoil Zrod, Joe Gibs Driven classic car oil, etc... Most of those are in the 1200-1500ppm range.

***Sorry, combination of the dingus autocorrect spelling and me not knowing how to spell.

[dubfreak1]

Just bought a quart of 10W30 full synthetic Joe Gibbs oil at Auto Value. Changing the oil in the snow-blower!!!!!!!

Look at the MSDS sheets for oils like Valvoline off road racing oil (not VR-1), Mobil 1 racing oil, etc. to see the level that the experts put in their oil when not having to comply to any gov't standard. It looks like 1750ppm is a good number to me. Just my $.02

OOPS, sorry. It is the product data sheets or MSDS that have the info.

Like this one:

mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.ashx

[thedirtydutchman]

Is that what the gibbs has in it?

[dubfreak1]

Jan 17, 2015 9:24:32 GMT -5 thedirtydutchman said:

Is that what the gibbs has in it?

Don't know, can't find their specs. I like the idea of a full synthetic with storage additive package for my Bugs and the snow-blower.

It is amazing what a moving target the ZDDP subject is. I have a case of Valvoline VV855 "not street legal" oil, but I can't find it in their product info anymore.

[thedirtydutchman]

It seems to be a very hard subject to get good info on thats for sure! Ive always ran conventional oil in my stuff. You think running a full synthetic would be a good idea in my rail?

[vanapplebomb]

Jan 17, 2015 19:12:12 GMT -5 thedirtydutchman said:

It seems to be a very hard subject to get good info on thats for sure! Ive always ran conventional oil in my stuff. You think running a full synthetic would be a good idea in my rail?

My opinion? Conventional, full synthetic, synthetic blend...in an ACVW, doesn't matter to me. I would worry more about what is added to the base stock, and not spend time trying to decide if you want a conventional or synthetic base. There are good and poor choices of oils for ACVWs derived from either type of base stock.

Just be aware that existing leaks may leak at a higher rate with some full synthetics because the hydrocarbon molecule chains are smaller and can find their way though gaps easier. Some claim a reduction in oil temps by a few degrees. Heck, if a couple degrees reduction in oil temp is really that important, just blow off the fins and oil cooler with compressed air. You will probably see a bigger reduction in temperature from that than from changing to this or that oil.

Take with a tablespoon or two of salt. I'm no chemist.

[MadMike]

Another problem with high performance VW engines is not enough oil, when you crank up the RPM's their is NO oil at the pickup tube just foam,,most of it will be in the 3/4 head,add on Deep sumps are a must!! or you can spin a rod bearing and I seen it happen even with a 1 1/2 qt sump If you rev it to 6k or more 4 qt or dry sump it

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[dubfreak1]

Jan 17, 2015 19:12:12 GMT -5 thedirtydutchman said:

You think running a full synthetic would be a good idea in my rail?

Probably a blend or conventional, but I have no experience with a dune buggy. Full synthetic is nice for the snowblower because it is a constant speed engine with no throttle control. The oil can't be warmed up at idle and then put to work. It needs to flow immediately. The Bug I use it in gets driven only a few times annually, and I used it in my racecars. My street Bug has conventional oil it. My $.02

X2 on the leakage. If your engine leaks at all, it will likely leak a lot more with synthetics

[thedirtydutchman]

I think ill just stick with the joe gibbs 15w 50 that i currently have. My little 1600 will never see 6k rpm so im not super worried about the deep sump right now. Thanks for all the advice guys!

[vanapplebomb]

The Joe Gibbs Driven HR oils are great for ACVWs. Go for it.