ZDDP

[bren]

(Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate)

Anyone use this with or in their engine oil?

I have looked into it a little. Seems like a good idea for our engines.
I got some of this and put it in the sand rail. Not sure if this is the best way to go. www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=82&catid=9&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Engine%20Break-In%20Oil%20Additive%20-%20TB%20Zinc%20Plus

There are many other products out there. What is recommended?
Most of us VW people being frugal, what is the most economical form of ZDDP for our engines?

[bren]

Found this on the Samba: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=220755&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Seems the consensus is to use Brad Penn 10w30.
Decent price here:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002RFDSZU/ref=s9_simh_gw_p263_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0K2E7A8QSNWSBBWRPQWP&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
I wonder if it can be found locally at the same or better price?

[dubfreak1]

This sounds like a very good product for us. Just spent an hour or so re-reading about the additive problems for our cars with today's oils and various oil's specs. I decided a while back to use Joe Gibbs Hot Rod 15W50 and will stick with that, but this Lucas product seems like a real viable alternative.

[81pumagtc]

Bren:

I did a lot of research on this a few month ago for the Pig of Plastic, and I ended up using Valvoline VR1 20W-50 Racing Oil. More ZDDP than most, quite inexpensive. I also found out that it held higher oil pressure at idle than most.

Best bonus, quite inexpensive at O'Riley Auto Parts, (Murray's). Much less expensive than Brad Penn at less than $5.00 per quart. Since I try to change it every 2000 miles or so, and I don't have to travel or stock it, it works for me.

I have used commercial oils for years, such as Rottella and Mobil Delvac 1, but they have been reformulated recently and use far less ZDDP than they did before. EPA issues. Many high ZDDP oils are now rated for "Off Road Use Only" since they no longer meet the EPA standards for oil. The first few quarts of the VR1 carried that warning, but I don't remember if the last time I changed it if it had it.

Dave

[MikeH]

I've been using Brad Penn. I ordered it online. Didn't find anyplace local carrying it. Bought it here...

www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

These guys do not recommend boosters of ZDDP.

[81pumagtc]

I would agree with them on using ZDDP as an additive...too little, bad. Unfortunately, too much, maybe even worse.

I have read all of the stuff that LN Engineering does, but just be aware that pretty much everything he has written on oils is horribly out of date. The big ZDDP reduction for many companies has only been in the past few years, and the article was written in 2000. Some of the oils he talks about have been gone for many years.

I would like to try Brad Penn, but I'm not too crazy about having to purchase a case to see if I like it, and every stocking dealer I have found wants $8 to $12 per quart, which is a little dear for something I'll probably use less than 2000 miles. I know some Porsche guys who swear by it, but it's a rare day when any of their cars ever do more than 500 miles a month.

I know I used SWEPCO in my 914-6 and never had an issue. I was given a case when I purchased the car.

I am also fond of Silkoline products, but they pretty much only cater to motorcycles in the US any more. I think some of the unique VW and BMW oils are made by them, however.


Dave

[bren]

MikeH, what grade are you using? What did they charge you for shipping?

Best deal I found on the Brad Penn was $4.97 a quart. Free shipping if you buy $25 or more.
I mentioned the idea to George that he should become a distributor, if he can help us beat this price.

I like the idea of using an oil that has the zddp in it already, simpler than an additive I think. Samba thread seemed to feel good about Brad Penn.

Do you feel using the more expensive oil is worth it for all VW motors? Or, is this more of a high power motor item?

[MadMike]

Dave's spot on as aways ;DI also use the Valvoline Racing oil(20/50) but it has draw backs :I have to be real carfull driving in a cold motor the oil pressure hits 60lbs and will blow a seal on the filter my MPG dropped from 35 to 29 and it runs slitely hotter but knowing my motor has the ZDDP in it Which is a MUST for double vavle spinged heads it saves the Cam&lifters ;D.Since I'm still a MC dealer I'll look in to Silkolene($10.95 a liter ) I do use there Suspention fluids on the race bikes.Comp Cams has a zddp additive that I'm gonna try next time with just SAE 30wt and my local Auto Value store has it ,Madmike

[MikeH]

I'm using Brad Penn 10w30 (partial sythetic) racing oil. Lists at $40 on LN engineering's and I think I paid $12 shipping 2 years ago. Still on my original case.

That's still less that $5 a quart.

Firm believer you need ZDDP in your oil due to the metal on metal and heat issues with air cooleds.

No way I would put standard oils with all the detergents in my VW.

[SplashBug]

I use Quaker State HD 30 4 stroke air cooled oil 3.37 a quart at Menards.

[TaylorMutts]

It seems as though no matter what website (forum) you read, there is no clear-cut consensus on which oil is best for air-cooled engines. I am still using Rotella 15W-40, but I rarely drive my car.

[81pumagtc]

I agree, although modern oils are generally much, much better than older oils. Brad Penn is the old Kendall GT-1 motor oil, which is very good stuff. Kendall was sold, and GT-1 today is not the old GT-1. Brad Penn uses the old Kendall formulation and base oil, since they made it originally.

It's hard for me to purchase a case of it without testing, but I would be very interested in trying it...but it's really expensive to buy 3 quarts of it from a dealer. I pay less than $4.00 for VR1.

I also absolutely believe that you need ZDDP for air-cooled VWs.

Something no one has mentioned except for Mike is the presence of friction modifiers, which are designed to reduce friction for better mileage, at the expense of film strength. Usually they also reduce actual viscosity, which is why these racing oils reduce your mileage.

The other thing is that we all tend to change oil frequently, and at 1500 to 2000 miles there should be no self-respecting premium oil that should suffer any kind of breakdown that early.

I'm pretty sure we are all OK.


Dave

[ghiastein]

Aug 10, 2010 12:50:08 GMT -5 SplashBug said:

I use Quaker State HD 30 4 stroke air cooled oil 3.37 a quart at Menards.

I think I am switching because Splash just runs and runs.

How many years with the same engine?
When was the last rebuild? If any?

[dansam]

Broke mine in with brad penn break in oil. Since my engine is now officially "broken" and its leaking like the exxon valdese so Im using Rotella 15W-40 at the moment. As soon as I fix the rear main this winter I plan to change to a synthetic with zddp in it (redline oil).
Lets face it we run flat tappet cams and need this stuff.

[SplashBug]

Have run Splash for 10 years and 45000 miles. All with HD 30. I change oil every 2500-3000 miles. I have seen multigrade and synthetic seem to thin at high temps and leak more. Mike