Brake Drums

[vanapplebomb]

I have an IRS rear suspension I am prepping for off roading. A pair of brake drums came with the trailing arms, but unfortunately, one was turned over spec, and the other one has questionable splines, so I have decided to get new drums.

My question is, what do I get? I have been tossing around the idea of wide 5 drums. I considered shoehorning early swing axle drums in, but decided I should probably do it "the right" way and go thing drums. I just don't know if the price for a pair of thing drums is worth it for the wide five pattern. I can get new 4 lug drums for 60 bucks each. I am looking at around 100 for thing drums.

What do you guys think?

[blue71]

You could always do new drums with a Chevy or other type of pattern, then you'd have more wheel options available to you.

[Ruffuss]

Thing drums (used) go for around twice what new Bug drums go for. New Thing drums can be found for $179. or so each. Check the Samba.com. I have a pair but they're on the
"May need them some day shelf".

[vwrick69]

You can do a disk conversion for around $200-250. Thats the way I would go.

[vanapplebomb]

Well, I would prefer sticking to drums because I already have all the stuff, just missing a set of functional drums.

Lately I have been talking with a Samba member about fitting swing axle drums onto IRS stub axles, backing plates, shoes, etc. Apparently with a little work it can be done, and made to work well. Wide 5 bolt pattern with the wide shoes for less fade.

One thing he mentioned was that the early wide 5 drums would crack starting from the oil slinger hole...

In reality, how tough are those drums?

Also, still expensive, but a good deal: Thing drums on sale for 95 a piece brand new. With shipping a pair would set me back about 230.

[Ruffuss]

Not a bad deal on the Thing drums, but disc brakes are where it's at especially for the sand, for about the same money.

[vw1s]

Early drums will fit by machining 5/8" off the "snout", where the axle nut makes contact.
I agree with the idea of going to disk brakes, pretty much maintnence free, and they work well.

[vanapplebomb]

Jan 27, 2013 20:15:24 GMT -5 vw1s said:

Early drums will fit by machining 5/8" off the "snout", where the axle nut makes contact.
I agree with the idea of going to disk brakes, pretty much maintnence free, and they work well.

Ummm...I could have this all wrong, but I think you might be confusing using type three drums on short spline swing axles. Machining the nose down for use on short spline swing axles is a popular thing to do to get bigger stronger brakes. The type 3's were long splines...both swing axle and irs, so there would be no need to machine them down for irs aplications.

The wide 5 swing axle drums from 58-67 need a spacer to be used on 68 long spline swing axles as well as IRS stuff because they were designed for short spline swing axles. Sounds like most people use the fat swing axle spacer and put it between the nose on the drum and the axle nut. Some have needed to use shims between the drum and outer seal/spacer to push the drum out a little bit to provide clearance for the edges of the wider late model 40mm wide brake shoes. To do that, someone said they used the little washers that come with the swing axle seal kits, and it worked just fine. Online vendors also sell spacers made specifically for using early drums on late splines. The trick is tweaking things so you can also use late model backing plates with the wider shoes.

I think it is a pretty cool idea. I'm dutch, sounds cheap, seams to be effective for the people using it, and definitely looks like fun to tinker around with. If nothing else it could be a cool experiment I could document

[vw1s]

Yup, I got it backwards, oops! I just did a mod involving the rear spacers/rotors, but, mine was for more track width. I had to move the 5/8" spacer to the inside of the rotor.

[vanapplebomb]

Oh, cool! Rotor...disk brakes I assume?

[vanapplebomb]

Here is a copy and past of a thread a fellow Samba posted up that I found very helpful. So if your interested, here are some tricks to run wide 5 1958-'67 swing axle drums on an IRS or a 68 long spline swing axle. Note that he did not simply swap in earlier backing plates and shoes. He used the later backing plates and wider shoes found on 68 and up brake parts. The advantage of the later parts is the wider shoes wear less, and don't fade as much.

People have been using a early 5lug Bug drum on later longer axles and IRS with good success, Including myself. You just need to have the capelability (sic) to figure out what you need to do to make them work. Such as spacing on the inside (for clearance for shoes or head of press in studs), machining all the way to inner edge for shoes to fit, grinding edge of shoes, and using a spacer on the outside between drum and nut.
I have always used a seal race/spacer from a swingle axle trans for the spacer.

Most new 5lug Bug drums come machine all the way across the brake shoe surface to where it makes the right angle to area where lug bolt holes are.
With narrow shoes that are use with the 5lug drums it not using all the surface inside. So when you use the wider rear shoes used from 1968 and later all the surface is used. On used drums there is always a step there from the narrow shoes wearing. This has to be removed if using used drums.
The shims I used on the inside between seal race/spacer on a IRS are the shim that is used on a swingaxle to keep the small o-ring from sliding under bearing.
With my own setup I using a 5lug early drum with SwayAway wheel studs which are press in ones that have a head on them to keep from pulling all the way through the drum. To have enough clearance between brake shoes and wheel studs, studs edge that will interfer with shoes has been cleared some using a 4 1/2in grinder, also edge of shoe has been taper with the grinder for more clearance. And I had to use 3 of the shims to get the clearance I needed.
This is with a 8in wheel that has 3 3/4in back spacing.
It is simple to do all of this, it just take time.

Washer, shim what ever you want to call it, Is the one that comes in rear axle seal kits.
.025", .60mm thick
1.185", 30mm ID
1.760", 44.75mm OD
All demensions are approx as you may come up with slightly different readings.

Here are some of the pictures That he posted up showing the wide 5 swing axle drums, later 40mm wide shoes nestled in the drum, swing axle spacers and washers, and the drum bolted on showing the swing axle bearing spacer between the drum and axle nut.

[vw1s]

Jan 28, 2013 14:10:11 GMT -5 vanapplebomb said:

Oh, cool! Rotor...disk brakes I assume?

Yup, disks. Stop better, no adjusting, etc. 4 wheel disks are amazing on an ACVW, along with the S/S braided lines, I can stop on a dime and give .08 cents change. ;D

[MadMike]

I have done this and it's a PITA to keep the axle nut tight,for the little more $$ get the disc ,I have them on the 917 and as Patrick sez u can stop instead of 'just slowing down' as with hot/fade'n drums

[vanapplebomb]

MadMike, your story has me a little nervous. What was happening? Were your spacers crushing? What would cause the axle nut to loosen up?


For the record, I totally agree with you, disks on sedans are awesome! On the other hand, my buddy has a light weight buggy with four wheel drum brakes with the front wheel cylinders swapped to the back. It stops about as good as anything else out there. For a buggy that weighs half as much as a sedan, I have a hard time imagining that disks would really be worth the extra money. Drums should be more than adequate, don't you think?

[MadMike]

Can't remember but I think it was a combo of aftermarket drums & crushed washer Just disc on the back and no fronts stop good on light buggys,madmike