091 conversion

[kurlhawk]

well I thought I had thoroughly researched my trans but as fate would have it, I bought another part that requires lots of questions. I have a 79-82 091 and I'm trying to mate it up to basically a bug motor and clutch (kennedy adapter-engine conversion).

I wasn't aware how different the 091 was from the 002. I can slide the trans up to the flywheel but then the input shaft bottoms out because it's a tad to long. Can I just cut it down? Then I started thinking about the bell housing and whether or not my clutch will work right. Will the throw be too short because of the different bellhousing?

I've searched so much online that I'm starting to read the same things over and over to make sure I haven't missed what I need to know. I'm not finding it. Do I really need to swap bell housings with a 002? How about the input shaft? I'd really like to avoid this further complication and get to putting this money pit back together.

any light you guys can shed on my dillema would be great.
thanks

[blue71]

They answer everything you need to know about an 091 and an upright engine in this thread that quotes www.ratwell. om

www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=400278

Early bay = upright engines

A friend of mine in Norwalk, OH has a 71 bus with a 3 rib and is considering sourcing a 6 rib for his bus restoration due to a T4 engine swap he is planning.

[vwrick69]

I have personally ran the 091 both ways. Yes you trim about 3/4 inch off imput shaft and an upright will work fine. But you must use the 091 starter, it has a longer gear on it and it is VERY expensive to replace. A regular 200mm clutch will work fine in this configuration. OR. You can switch out the bellhousing AND imput shaft from an earlier trans and have the use of earlier{cheaper] starter. I am running an 091 with 002 bellhousing in my DC now. I didn't have access to the imput shaft from 002, so I used 091 shaft, it works fine.
You mentioned adapter plate, what are you adapting to? Might make a difference. Any questions call me 419-272-2235 Rick

[kurlhawk]

thanks for the link Nick. that's actually one of those I've read several times and has some good info but not the whole story.

Rick you say you run the 091 input? With the 002 bellhousing doesn't that make it that much longer? You say the clutch will work fine but that's with your 002 bell, right. When people talk about different size flywheels they are talking about thicknesses correct? I'm just realizing this as I always pictured this being different diameters instead. But 200mm makes sense now. Possibly all I'd need is a 225mm fly to make the clutch work right. Perhaps I will call Kennedy and see if they have a solution to this.
BTW I'm adapting to a GM quad 4.
I'm also curious how meticulous you need to be if you trim the input shaft.

Problem is I just need to get in there and start taking measurements and figure this out on my own. I just have too much time sitting at a desk at work to ponder this and it drives me nutz.lol Seems like what ever way I go it's going to cost $$$. In the meantime I can order up my trailing arms and make some progress with them while I keep searching for parts and answers to my tranny woes.

[vwrick69]

The 200mm IS diameter of clutch. The measure on imput is not that critical, just so it doesn't bottom out and is still supported. The TYPE IV flywheels are 5 bolt not 4, adapter flywheel required. If you have the starter with your 091, just trim the imput and go with it. If I were you I would keep my eyes open at junkyards and swaps for 901 starters so you have cheap spares.

[kurlhawk]

^good info thanks. I'm finding more out by the day. Already have a 002 input shaft on the way for $33 which I didn't think was too bad. I found a guy with an 002 bellhousing with the top mounts finally. When I told him what I planned to do with it he told me it wouldn't work. I haven't found anything too tell me he might be right. Everyone just says 002 and 091 bellhousing swap. Period. later 002 have the handy ears on top for mounting.

I'm really on the fence as to whether I want to just try the 091 first. The starter will probably turn my 2.4L easier than the shiny new bug starter I'm hoping to reuse.(don't have a 091 starter yet) A quick check showed the 091 starter can be had for 20-30$ more, not deal breaking in my opinion. Still under $100. I'm just concerned about the overall length.

Perhaps I will order the bell just incase. People are always looking to buy them anyway. When I get my input shaft I'll bolt everything up to the motor on the floor and then take measurements and compare with my frame before making a bunch of mounts. Then I can be sure how it'll fit.

thanks for letting me chat your ears off lol.

[vwrick69]

If you do the swap you will need the gasket that goes behind the bellhousing. Does the 2.4 turn in the same direction as a VW? The 002 belhousing WILL work, you can check my DC thread.

[blue71]

I didn't realize that you were using the quad 4 from GM. We had one of those in a 93 Skylark my dad bought new. We sold when I was in HS with 235k on the clock and it still attained ~34mpg. The folks that bought it didn't believe that it was the original engine until my dad slowly explained it to them, fools. Their kid drove it for a few years. Anyways, have fun.

[kurlhawk]

I bought a brand new 97 sunfire when I was about 21 years old and I babied it for years. It only has 138K because I used to park it winters. I haven't had many problems with the motor. It was in the dealership for electrical problems sooo many times I lost count. But I love the engine with it's good low end and you can get a decent exhaust growl out of them too. So I bought a 96 GT donor. It's going to be a long process with my limited resourses. I had the motor mounted to a bug IRS tranny last winter and it looked cool. I just have so many things to do now that I've decided to revamp the entire rear end!

[kurlhawk]

incase anyone is curious, I should have a 002 input shaft coming in the mail. The guy who was going to ship me a 002 bell told me it wouldn't fit and now won't return any of my emails. I've tried not to be annoying, and just ask what's up with him, still no response. Dunno if it's VW snobbishness or what but I'm movin on.
Decided maybe I will attempt to put things together with the original 091 bell but I still need to find a place to sell me a gasket for when I swap the inputs. Hoping I don't have to order. I get tired of waiting!
Still on the fence about 2-1/2"X2-1/2" or 3X3" Arms or even just staying stock.

[vwrick69]

Alot of scumbags on Samba!!! You are OVERTHINKING this trans, Just cut 3/4 of an inch off the end of 091 imput shaft and try it. Round off the edge and you will be golden.

[kurlhawk]

Well I'm offended. Overthinking's what I do best!
I've got a better handle on where I'm at now. I just like to get as much info as I can upfront. I always seem to run into snags. Was just seriously contemplating 4X5 arms. Alas, I bet 2.5X2.5 would be just fine and I can use a stock length axle. Gonna call Avery's soon and make the order. Then it's time to get some work done.

[kurlhawk]

2.5X2.5's ordered. Boy that was easy. The people are at Avery's were great. Took plenty of time to explain everything and put my mind at ease. Found out he even re-engineered the bearing carrier to accept a better inner bearing. So far I'm really glad I chose them. Fast forward two to three weeks and I'll hear how my arms are doing!