cooling flap return spring ???

[vdubdriver]

This may be a dumb question.....but what is everyone using for a return spring on their cooling flaps/thermostat (other than a stock spring)? I don't see any springs listed in any of the on-line VWparts places.

I bought a dog-house flaps setup at a swap, but couldn't find a spring for it. I'm currently looking for another doghouse flap setup for my other car and will need a spring for that also.

Ok if that was not dumb enough....were different springs used for the non-doghouse flaps AND the doghouse flaps?

[ghiastein]

I am just using a stock spring on the Bus. I believe that a non doghouse style used a shorter spring, but I could be wrong. My local Small Hardware store has a large selection of various springs. You might find a spring at your local hardware store. The spring just needs to be strong enough to hold the flaps open in-case the thermostat fails.

[blue71]

My stock spring was messed up/not holding the flaps and the thermostat was bad on my bug so I took it all off.

X2 on the hardware store items, that's what I've used on a stock carb and on duals when the linkage one wasn't strong enough.

[vdubdriver]

Jan 7, 2011 7:17:55 GMT -5 ghiastein said:

You might find a spring at your local hardware store. The spring just needs to be strong enough to hold the flaps open in-case the thermostat fails.

Now I'm wondering how important the spring is! The thermostats that I've seen that are failed, have failed in the expanded position; meaning that the flaps should fail open.

[MadMike]

Wire them suckers open ;D Or just to Pi$$ off the Purists' toss the flaps in the trash ;D ;D I have never run flaps in all the VWs I've had Maybe if I lived in Death Vally or Fairbanks Alaska ;D ;D ;D

[vw1s]

I would agree with wiring them open. I am no purist, but, for better cooling, I would NOT remove them all together. I welded mine open, then re-installed. The flaps don't just regulate the air, they also direct it where it needs to go when they are fully opened, without them, the air takes the path of least resistance, which, is usually straight down between the cylinders.

[MadMike]

I hear ya,But I've never cooked a set of heads or dropped a seat/valve in 30yrs ;D from 1200cc-2332 Hmm maybe I should go get a Lotto ticket ;D ;D ;D ;D

[MadMike]

Pic of the underside of one of my Scat 36hp shrouds ,the air doesn't go straight down It's does have fins so the Heads get ther share of air ;D ;D ;D

Attachments:

[vw1s]

Jan 9, 2011 8:26:09 GMT -5 MadMike said:

Pic of the underside of one of my Scat 36hp shrouds ,the air doesn't go straight down It's does have fins so the Heads get ther share of air ;D ;D ;D

You are right... you're picture prove's it... VW engineers were wrong, all of the research is wrong.
My STOCK F.I. doghouse shroud has veins in it also, but, for some reason the VW engineers thought it was a good idea to also inculde flaps.
You need to get a better internet connection so you can do more reading on how we do things now days. ;D
I suppose everybody running clear dizzy caps, Kadrons and 34 ict's should buy a lottery ticket too!

[teamafx]

What pic?

[vdubdriver]

Jan 8, 2011 8:29:07 GMT -5 vw1s said:

I would agree with wiring them open. I am no purist, but, for better cooling, I would NOT remove them all together. I welded mine open, then re-installed. The flaps don't just regulate the air, they also direct it where it needs to go when they are fully opened, without them, the air takes the path of least resistance, which, is usually straight down between the cylinders.

Patrick - Great advice. I've heard this advice before. My '65 Convertible currently does not have any flaps in it; that's why I bought some. I'm not a VW Purist, but thought I'd try to install a working thermostat since I have one. If I don't have any luck finding a suitable spring, I'll just wire the flaps open.

[ghiastein]

I run a 36hp fan shroud on the Ghia No Thermostat and No Flaps. I love the look of the original 36hp fan shroud. It has no outlets for the heat exchangers because of the factory stale air system. It has no flaps because originally it had a ring on the fan inlet that blocked the fan blades when cool. Also being a factory original fan shroud it has internal baffling to help channel air over the cylinders. like the flaps do. I have never over heated and the Ghia runs very cool almost too cool.

On the Bus I run the correct system because I like my heat on a cool morning. Because of the thermostat my Bus engine only take a few minutes to reach operation temperature.

Cooler running engines ware out faster. The engine was designed to run at a certain temperature. Engine tolerances increase with heat when an engine runs cool the tolerances are very tight and may cause premature failure.

If your engine is very near stock help it to last longer by allowing it to reach optimum running temperature sooner. My Ghia's engine will be turned back to a stock fan shroud and working thermostat soon.

[MadMike]

Patrick,Them Old Krauts Didn't have a Clue ;D AND we should all run 6:5 to 1 CR like Berg said ;D ;D after mess'in around these VW's for over 35yrs,I Know what works Most of the time ;D ;D ;D,Madmike

[vw1s]

Jan 10, 2011 9:15:32 GMT -5 MadMike said:

Patrick,Them Old Krauts Didn't have a Clue ;D AND we should all run 6:5 to 1 CR like Berg said ;D ;D after mess'in around these VW's for over 35yrs,I Know what works Most of the time ;D ;D ;D,Madmike

If it weren't for those old Krauts, we'd all be driving around in recycled beer cans.

Gene Berg was great at marketing and promoting...I never said to follow his teachings, I don't.

What it comes down to is this, you say you won't overheat if you don't run flaps, I say (as well as years of research by others including the "old Krauts" that designed our cars originally), you won't overheat if you do, so...run 'em or don't, you won't overheat, right?

To make it clear, I NEVER said that you would overheat if you don't run the flaps...
But, WITH flaps, (thermostatically controlled or just wired open) you will see more consistant temperatures across your entire engine, fewer hot spots, fewer cold spots, which will lead to less wear and longer engine life. Until you have done the research yourself, or read the information from those who have, you won't convince me otherwise.

NOT overheating is NOT research. What are your head temps at the plug? At the exhaust port? What are your cylinders temps? On each side? Top, bottom, and middle? What is the outside air temp? Oil temps? What kind of road are you driving on, hills, etc? What car is the engine in? A bus, or a 1500lb sliver like a Laser?

Multiple tests with multiple temp. sensors placed in various locations on the engine, mutiple shroud/ flap combinations, control samples, and documented results, that's research.

Rhetorical question:
As a kid, I drove around the field behind my girlfriends house in my baja with no cooling system whatsoever, it didn't overheat, does that mean I am safe to NEVER run a cooling system?

Contrary to popular belief, old dogs can learn new tricks, even after 35 years, IF they are willing. ;D

To avoid straying any further from the original topic, I will leave it at that.

[MadMike]

Hey ther Young'n don't get your pantys in a bunch ;D ;D, I'll talk to ya at the GTG,Madmike