1970 Westy Camper

[67type1]

ghiastein - if you can bring it over on the 16th, we'll put our heads together and get it running. -Ray

[blue71]

If you have a spare piece of wire long/thick enough bypass the original wire that goes to the starter from the back of the fuse panel? I had a piece about 20' long and ran it out the door and on the grass to the the starter.

Red/white between the diameter of a golf tee and pencil with female spade terminals on both ends

[steve71westy]

AJ
Is there any chance that fuel has leaked down into the cylinders or case causing a hydro lock type of situation? Maybe try pulling the plugs and turning it over?
Steve G

[steve71westy]

Oops sorry didn't see the post about it turning over by hand
Steve G

[ghiastein]

Well after much headache and many tries I finally got the Bus to run.

This is what happened today

With the battery fully charged at 12.6 volts I got 12.2 volts at the solenoid wire when my wife turned the key. So far so good. So I cranked the engine and the starter went slow with no fire.

I then removed the fan belt and the alternator spun very nice. With no difference in starter rpm again.

I removed the plugs and installed the belt back on. Cranked the engine and wow it spun fast and the starter sounded strong. Installed the plugs back in and still the starter sounded weak and with no fire.

I pulled the coil wire and the starter sounded the same.

I was worried that my fuel pump was not pumping fuel correctly. So I grabbed a known good fuel pump hooked up the fuel lines. Then I hand pumped the fuel pump to make sure the float bowl of the carb was full of fuel. It was so my old pump was doing the job. So since the new pump had the fuel lines attached I just bolted the new fuel pump on.

I tried to start it again and still the starter turns over slowly.

Now I am desperate and determined to at least do something. So I fired up my truck and ran jumper cables to the bus. Now my volt gauge is reading 14 volts. I attempt to start the Bus and now the starter finally almost sounds like it should but its still struggling. After many attempts still nothing no pop pop vroom.

I staticly timed the distributer to 7.5 BTDC before it was staticly timed to "0". I hop back in the bus with the truck still attached to the bus. I crank the starter and finally I get a pop. After many tries later each time increasing the number of pops. I finally get the bus running on all cylinders.

After a few minutes of warm up. I hook my tools to the bus.
My finding are....
Dwell at 50 degrees
Idle at 900 rpm any less and the engine wants to die.
Timing at idle 7.5 degrees
30 degrees advance at 3500 rpm

So it all looks good except for the oil gushing from between the engine and trans. I believe that I might of installed the main seal incorrectly or its crooked. I just used the hammer method it worked for me before.

So I added a quart of oil to the engine while its running and I managed to do my victory lap around the neighborhood. The bus drove very nice and I managed to get the Bus up to 3rd gear, not quite into 4th.

After I shut the engine off the starter still turned over slowly but the engine came back to life.

So off to the parts store for a new main seal but this time I will spend the $$ for the seal installer.

Well my problem of the slow starter is still not solved, I have a very bad leaky main seal, but in the end the bus runs and drives.

The leaky main seal jogged my memory. I might have shimmed the flywheel to tight. If I remember correctly I set the crank play at 0.002 because I did not have the correct thickness of shims. I believe that the book says a minimum of 0.004.

Could that be my whole problem? My flywheel is shimmed to 0.002 and my main seal is gushing oil?

[67type1]

Just some thoughts, not having seen or worked on your bus...

.002 on the end play is tight, but probably isn't your oil leak problem. I suspect there's something going on with the seal or possibly the cam plug.

On the starting system; I would recommend voltage drop tests for every cable and connection to ensure you don't have a bad cable or poor connection.

-Ray

[mattwest]

Apr 4, 2011 19:24:58 GMT -5 67type1 said:

Just some thoughts, not having seen or worked on your bus...

.002 on the end play is tight, but probably isn't your oil leak problem. I suspect there's something going on with the seal or possibly the cam plug.

On the starting system; I would recommend voltage drop tests for every cable and connection to ensure you don't have a bad cable or poor connection.

-Ray

i agree with this guy

[ghiastein]

Hopefully soon I will have the time to yank out engine. I am hoping its just a bad installed main seal. I might have an extra seal but I am going to try the local VW stores for the installer tool. I am also going to pick up some more shims and reset the end play.

Lets hope that is my problem is small and soon the bus will be driving on the road.

[MadMike]

It's the Battery (weak) or the connection ,dout it's the shims since it turned over good with the plugs out

[ghiastein]

Sorry for the long delay from last weekend activities. It’s been crazy here.

Over the last weekend I have found the reason for my mysterious slow starter.

Before I started I wanted to feel how force was needed to rotate the engine over by hand. I found that it took much more effort to rotate the engine in the bus than in the engine in the Ghia. Basically I can rotate the Ghia engine by hand; I need a wrench to rotate the Bus engine.

So Saturday morning I decided to yank engine and remove the flywheel. To readjust my crank end play to 0.004 inch the specification in the book.

The engine removal went nicely and I pulled my flywheel. What I found out is that I did not install my main seal in far enough and it was rubbing on my flywheel. Rubbing enough to melt and burn a ring into my main seal. I previously purchased a new seal and the correct tool to install it. No more hammering on the seal for me.

Also while the engine was out I readjusted my crank end play to 0.004 instead of 0.002. What happened was that I have 0.032 end play and I purchased new (3) 0.010 and (2) 0.012 shims. When I set the end play the first time I could not find my stack of used shims so I used what I had and installed (3) new 0.010 shims so my end play was at 0.002 when finished.

This time I found my shims and set the end play to 0.004 and yes I checked it and verified it after everything was installed.

With the flywheel back on and new seal installed the engine rotates over much easier now.

So I install the engine back in to the bus and after much wiggling I finally got it to mate up to the transmission. I only connected up the basic electrical and bolt only the needed stuff up because I want to test things before I install everything else up. I am done messing around.

So with a charged battery and the auto-stick starter installed I attempt to start the bus.

With just a quick turn of the key the bus engine came to life.

Finally everything is working smoothly and the bus is idling nicely. So I do a quick check of leaks and I notice its dripping from the passenger side of the case. After shutting off the engine I remove the tin under the push rods and notice that it was only oil left sitting on the tin from the spewing old main seal.

Finally

So I install everything else and after a quick call to my insurance company I am of driving the bus Saturday night. Yep it took me 9 hours to do everything all on Saturday.

But.......

Sunday Wifey and I want to go out to lunch and take the VW bus. As I am walking up to the garage. I notice a trail of oil following the bus to the garage from last night. I check the oil and notice that the level is still in the same spot as the last time I checked it. So off to lunch we go driving the bus.

After we get home I noticed a new trail of oil up to where I parked the bus at home. I did not worry about it too much thinking that it’s still dripping from the massive oil leak I had before. I figure that I will check things out later when I move the bus to the garage.

Sunday afternoon I fire up the bus to drive it to the garage. This time I left it running as I crawled under to see where the leak is coming from. This time it’s from the driver’s side of the case and it’s not dripping its peeing.

So I shut the bus off and remove the piece of tin under the pushrods on the driver’s side this time.

I found the leak is coming from above the pushrods and between #3 cylinder and the transmission matting flange.

I am guessing it’s from the oil cooler. Now the engine has to come out again to check. Nuts.

So the rest of Sunday evening is spent thinking of how I can remove the engine fix things and install the engine back in. So I can drive the bus to the Tune up session on Saturday. I think I can do it but it will be tough.

I go to bed at 10:00pm on Sunday and at 11:00pm the Wife calls her Blazer will not start and she is stuck at work. I go an pick her up and quickly verify that it’s not the starter or the battery it’s much more. The Blazer cranks and pops but no vroom. We leave the Blazer at her work for the night.

Now I have to fix the Blazer before the Bus.

Nuts there goes my plans..... I have no idea when I can get back to the Bus...

[81pumagtc]

AJ:

Too bad about working on the bus...but the old saying is VERY true. Happy wife...happy life!


Dave Riedle

[blue71]

Glad to hear it was an endplay and not a wiring problem. Sorry to hear about the oil cooler, been there and had to do it too. Your wife's blazer could be the ecm. My ZR2 had no spark and cranked and wound up being the computer after a day of tinkering. I'll look at my shop manual and see what I can find for your symptoms.

[ghiastein]

Apr 17, 2011 20:52:25 GMT -5 blue71 said:

Glad to hear it was an endplay and not a wiring problem. Sorry to hear about the oil cooler, been there and had to do it too. Your wife's blazer could be the ecm. My ZR2 had no spark and cranked and wound up being the computer after a day of tinkering. I'll look at my shop manual and see what I can find for your symptoms.

The Blazer runs

After checking the ignition module and the coil. I found that the coil wire was missing the spring clip inside the boot. Still the Blazer would not fire so the wife and I attempted to pull it home.

After the Blazer was home. I remember a few years ago I had trouble with the Crankshaft Position Sensor. When I removed the Sensor the threaded insert (kind of like a case saver in a VW engine but with no external threads) Pulled out too. Which left me with a large hole to screw the little bolt into.

Long story short I replaced the press in threaded insert with a new thicker threaded style that required me to tap threads, but it will hold the Sensor much better than the press in style.

Still the Blazer did not start.

In the end it was the most common and easiest to fix.

Simply a very corroded distributor cap and rotor.

I am amazed that Wifey drove the blazer to work without a miss fire.


Sorry of the bit of off topic
Back to the Bus stuff.

[ghiastein]

And the Bus Story continues.

Today I yanked the engine AGAIN twice in less than 100 miles.

On the good side I found my oil leak it is coming from my oil cooler. The oil cooler is still good. One of the little rubber donut seals shifted during assembly. It only leaked when the oil relief valve opened to let the hot oil to the cooler. That is why I never saw any leaking until oil pressure was reached at the oil cooler.

Yep it sucks I spent 2 hours today after work pulling the engine and removing the fan shroud...... With the Ghia I would never have to remove the engine to remove the fan shroud.

Soon I will resemble the engine, install it, and be back on the road..... Just 1 month behind.

[dubfreak1]

I think we need to form a "if it can go wrong, it will" division of the GoodVolks Club. After hearing your bus stories, I think you'd would be a charter member.

Your perseverance is admirable and inspiring!